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Mysteria Kiito
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:47 pm

I had Rei Rei out of wedlock. OH NO! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:48 pm

Mysteria Kiito wrote:
I had Rei Rei out of wedlock. OH NO! Rolling Eyes
Oh. In that case, you're fucked.


Last edited by Tprime on Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : No pun intended.)
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Mysteria Kiito
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:05 pm

I'm sure Hell has the best food anyways.. Chefs and Bakers get chicks all the time. I should know, I love me some good food before a hot dicking. There is sure to be catering down there.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:03 pm

Awesome thing about Catholicism, you can get forgived for your sins!
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:06 pm

Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:49 pm

InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:25 pm

Rock wrote:
InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.
Only if you believe no longer existing is a bad thing and that hell is the only afterlife that could possibly be waiting for them if they are wrong, which it isn't.
Just saying.

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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:35 pm

Rock wrote:
InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.

Right... until you look at history and find out that there IS no hell. The Jews had no concept of it, they didn't believe in it nor did Jesus. Anything dealing with hell or Satan was influenced by the Romans. Hell Satan himself is nothing more than the role of 'underworld god' being thrust upon the ambiguous fictitious foil that appeared in the parable of Job.

Reading up on the history of the bible, its a good thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:12 pm

Forgefire_McCain wrote:
Rock wrote:
InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.

Right... until you look at history and find out that there IS no hell. The Jews had no concept of it, they didn't believe in it nor did Jesus. Anything dealing with hell or Satan was influenced by the Romans. Hell Satan himself is nothing more than the role of 'underworld god' being thrust upon the ambiguous fictitious foil that appeared in the parable of Job.

Reading up on the history of the bible, its a good thing.

Wrong. There is a Hell. We're there. affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:30 pm

Well when you can show me where I can find the daughter of Loki (whom this realm is named after if you are right) then I'll believe you. But the fact is the Christian church SHOULD not and DOES not have a concept of an afterlife eternal torture if you go by the real teachings and ignore things inserted later after Jesus was killed.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:32 pm

Rock wrote:
InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.
Not if you're a rational person and realize that if there is in fact an "all-loving" God, he wouldn't throw good people into a lake of fire for not believing in him, because honestly, that's a little harsh. He wouldn't be too all-loving and all-caring if he did that now, would he?

For example. A man saves a hundred people by foiling a terrorist bombing, we'll say. He dies in the process, sending him up to the pearly gates, where St. Peter promptly spits in his face and sends him down to hell, because he doesn't believe in the big man in the sky who controls everything?
Just saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:40 pm

Tprime wrote:
Rock wrote:
InfamousI wrote:
Awesome thing about Atheism, you don't need to be forgiven for your sins! Razz

Yeah, but you know that either way, you're fucked when you die.
Just saying.
Not if you're a rational person and realize that if there is in fact an "all-loving" God, he wouldn't throw good people into a lake of fire for not believing in him, because honestly, that's a little harsh. He wouldn't be too all-loving and all-caring if he did that now, would he?

For example. A man saves a hundred people by foiling a terrorist bombing, we'll say. He dies in the process, sending him up to the pearly gates, where St. Peter promptly spits in his face and sends him down to hell, because he doesn't believe in the big man in the sky who controls everything?
Just saying.

You don't even have to deviate from biblical precedent to prove that the lake of fire was metaphorical or to demonstrate that Hell was a roman construct. Ask any Rabbi and they will tell you that Hell is not a part of the Jewish faith. Jesus taught based on the Jewish faith. He never added anything about Hell himself, and the closest the Jews ever come is when they dabble with Zoroastrianism, something they seem sure caused every single punishment they ever suffered (Baal worship for example).

Jesus would not have taught about or even mentioned Hell or Satan in any form. Any time a lake of fire is brought up its a translation from the Jewish concept of a bad afterlife (someones poor actions in life reflecting on their feelings about said actions in the afterlife) in one of many forms.

This is why its important to keep in mind the fact that CHRISTIANITY HAS GONE THOUGH 2000 YEARS OF POLITICAL PROCESSING, MISTRANSLATION AND THE TELEPHONE GAME!

You want the truth, do the research.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:56 pm

Even though i agree with you Forge, I'm just using Catholic rules here to show how dumb it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:02 pm

1) Objection! Speculation! Caps ≠ truth.
2) By Catholic rules, faith in itself is not related to salvation. You do, however, have to abide by the Church's moral teachings.
3) Afterlife stuff... explain? I'd thought you were saying there was none, but now I understand that you're saying that there is, but not a bad one?
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:00 pm

Rock wrote:
1) Objection! Speculation! Caps ≠ truth.

To what are you referring to in this?

Quote :
2) By Catholic rules, faith in itself is not related to salvation. You do, however, have to abide by the Church's moral teachings.

And the fact that one of the main themes to Jesus' overall teachings was that this was INCORRECT, as seen by his constant contradiction of that idea when it was held up by Jewish religious leaders, doesn't kind of fly in the face of that outlook? Sorry Rock but if anything that kind of shoots Catholicism in the foot. Good works do not lead to salvation, the proper mindset leads naturally to good works. I don't know why so many religious leaders find this concept hard.

Quote :
3) Afterlife stuff... explain? I'd thought you were saying there was none, but now I understand that you're saying that there is, but not a bad one?

According to the Jewish faith, and by extention the Christian one since all that inserted roman paganism should not apply, there is only ONE afterlife. How you feel in it and experience it is based on your actions in this life, in so much as a poorly led life will lead to regrets, and a self destructive mindset will only make this worse. If you want to know what Christians SHOULD think about the afterlife, talk to a Rabbi.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:29 pm

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

To what are you referring to in this?

First: to the notion that certain verses were inserted by the Church after Christ, second to all that is written in capital letters in your various posts on this topic.

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

And the fact that one of the main themes to Jesus' overall teachings was that this was INCORRECT, as seen by his constant contradiction of that idea when it was held up by Jewish religious leaders, doesn't kind of fly in the face of that outlook? Sorry Rock but if anything that kind of shoots Catholicism in the foot. Good works do not lead to salvation, the proper mindset leads naturally to good works. I don't know why so many religious leaders find this concept hard.

But you see, the 'good works lead to salvation' thing is not part of Catholic doctrine. It's frequently used by Baptists and the like who are entirely uneducated about not only the Catholic faith but oftentimes their own as a bash on Catholicism, though to be fair it's one of the more understandable misconceptions. You can freely look this up - I'm not arguing an opinion here. That's the way it is. That's why I said 'moral' and not 'ethical' teachings.

BRB

Quote :
3) Afterlife stuff... explain? I'd thought you were saying there was none, but now I understand that you're saying that there is, but not a bad one?

According to the Jewish faith, and by extention the Christian one since all that inserted roman paganism should not apply, there is only ONE afterlife. How you feel in it and experience it is based on your actions in this life, in so much as a poorly led life will lead to regrets, and a self destructive mindset will only make this worse. If you want to know what Christians SHOULD think about the afterlife, talk to a Rabbi.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:13 pm

Rock wrote:

First: to the notion that certain verses were inserted by the Church after Christ, second to all that is written in capital letters in your various posts on this topic.

The caps were the bullets, and frankly things were inserted. Scholars can prove this. Hell the 'let he who is without sin' story was put into English bibles around the 1600s and is NOT shown elsewhere. That is a more recent example but if you study Roman history and anthropology its easy to see where they put things in and why. They used Christianity like any religion. To them Religion was political and nothing more. You 'adopt' a faith, make it into a big conglomeration of all the other assimilated faiths and then nobody can be mad because they are following their faith while being a roman citizen.

Ten to one the 'give to Cesar what is Cesar's' crap was a way to make Christians pay taxes.

Quote :
But you see, the 'good works lead to salvation' thing is not part of Catholic doctrine. It's frequently used by Baptists and the like who are entirely uneducated about not only the Catholic faith but oftentimes their own as a bash on Catholicism, though to be fair it's one of the more understandable misconceptions. You can freely look this up - I'm not arguing an opinion here. That's the way it is. That's why I said 'moral' and not 'ethical' teachings.

Then they should not need all of the rituals and chants and all the other Pagan inspired crap. You don't need to talk to a person who has studied the bible for absolution, you don't need pennance. You don't need to go though all this ritual and voodoo to be a better person or to be right with god. You simply have to take the time, think about whats going on and then make things right. You are not saved by the moral or ethical teachings. You are saved because of intent. Its the condition of your heart that needs to change, not the works you do. Those works will follow as an incidental change.

Quote :
BRB

Quote :
3) Afterlife stuff... explain? I'd thought you were saying there was none, but now I understand that you're saying that there is, but not a bad one?

According to the Jewish faith, and by extention the Christian one since all that inserted roman paganism should not apply, there is only ONE afterlife. How you feel in it and experience it is based on your actions in this life, in so much as a poorly led life will lead to regrets, and a self destructive mindset will only make this worse. If you want to know what Christians SHOULD think about the afterlife, talk to a Rabbi.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:33 pm

Abide by the moral teachings, like what, stoning adulterers and the like?
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:22 pm

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

The caps were the bullets, and frankly things were inserted. Scholars can prove this. Hell the 'let he who is without sin' story was put into English bibles around the 1600s and is NOT shown elsewhere.

I know nothing about that other than that it existed in Latin Bibles, and that that particular verse was once repeated in Luke, but omitted from there. Perhaps I'll talk with an authority and then take a stance on that based on being fully informed on both sides of that argument, but not until then.

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

That is a more recent example but if you study Roman history and anthropology its easy to see where they put things in and why. They used Christianity like any religion. To them Religion was political and nothing more. You 'adopt' a faith, make it into a big conglomeration of all the other assimilated faiths and then nobody can be mad because they are following their faith while being a roman citizen.

Which explains the mass executions and torturing of Christians up until the time of Constantine...?

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

Ten to one the 'give to Cesar what is Cesar's' crap was a way to make Christians pay taxes.

And why wouldn't Christians pay taxes?

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

Then they should not need all of the rituals and chants and all the other Pagan inspired crap. You don't need to talk to a person who has studied the bible for absolution, you don't need pennance. You don't need to go though all this ritual and voodoo to be a better person or to be right with god. You simply have to take the time, think about whats going on and then make things right. You are not saved by the moral or ethical teachings. You are saved because of intent. Its the condition of your heart that needs to change, not the works you do. Those works will follow as an incidental change.

But Catholic doctrine neither claims nor implies that these practices are required for salvation, only good intent in full regard of life. We do them because we feel them to be the right thing to do, not because we're afraid we have to. That's the thing with conversion from Protestantism of various sorts to Catholocism: doesn't matter what you say or how right you are, it's safer to go with the faith that says you have to be of their faith than that which doesn't.

Forgefire_McCain wrote:

According to the Jewish faith, and by extention the Christian one since all that inserted roman paganism should not apply, there is only ONE afterlife. How you feel in it and experience it is based on your actions in this life, in so much as a poorly led life will lead to regrets, and a self destructive mindset will only make this worse. If you want to know what Christians SHOULD think about the afterlife, talk to a Rabbi.

Jesus like FDR, man: He got a New Deal for y'all.
On the 'Lake of Fire' stuff being a Hebrew metaphor... you do know that the original New Testament was neither written in Greek nor Hebrew but rather Aramaic? Figures of speech from the one wouldn't transfer into the other. Old garment, unshrunk cloth, man.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:24 pm

Rock wrote:
That's the thing with conversion from Protestantism of various sorts to Catholocism: doesn't matter what you say or how right you are, it's safer to go with the faith that says you have to be of their faith than that which doesn't.
So you're admitting you're Catholic because you're afraid that if you aren't, you might go to hell, and you'd rather be safe than sorry? If that's the case, why haven't you converted to Islam yet? They're much more hardcore about claiming you have to be of their faith to avoid God's wrath than Catholics ever were. How many Catholics have you known throughout history that've blown themselves up in the name of killing non-believers just to prove their faith? As you yourself have just claimed, better err on the side of caution and convert now, after all, what if they're right? All your faith in Catholicism would have meant nothing and you're fucked when you die! If what you just said is what you truly believe, then it's truly in your best interest to convert to Islam now.

Seriously, that is what I hate most about such religions, the notion that no matter how good of a person you are, if you don't believe in their religion, you're still a horrible person and will be punished in the afterlife for not blindly following what they want you to follow.

And yes, no matter how well thought out your reasons to believe are, it is still blind, because the reasons behind your belief don't make one tiny bit of difference, all that matters is that you believe according to your statement.

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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:33 pm

InfamousI wrote:

So you're admitting you're Catholic because you're afraid that if you aren't, you might go to hell, and you'd rather be safe than sorry?...

Er... no. I'd intended to imply that said statement was a factor in the potential decision of a Protestant, such as for example a Baptist, to convert to Catholicism. Little side-trip I was making there.
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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:25 pm

Rock wrote:
Er... no. I'd intended to imply that said statement was a factor in the potential decision of a Protestant, such as for example a Baptist, to convert to Catholicism. Little side-trip I was making there.
Only, that kind of logic makes no sense whatsoever. If there is truly a just and all-loving God who created the universe, what reason is there to believe that He cares more about what you believe than how you live your life? I personally cannot believe that there is one true faith that people absolutely must ascribe to in order to be accepted by God. I cannot believe that no matter how thoughtless or ignorant you are, so long as you believe the right religion, you will go to heaven over someone who has spent his entire life pondering the best way to live is life but was taught or chose to follow a slightly different set of beliefs than the "true" religion. If that is how God truly is, then I would rather spend an eternity in hell than live by His unjust and bullshit rules of acceptance. I admit I have made some mistakes in my life, and that I am plagued by thoughts that just aren't right to have, but I do my best to contain them and live my life the best way I know how, to love and support my family the best way I know how, to respect those around me to the best of my ability, and if that's not enough for God, then He can go fuck Himself for all I care, because I truly strive to be the best person I can be, and if that's not good enough, then fuck it, because if that's not enough, no reward is worth forsaking the values and beliefs I have grown to uphold in life, especially when such a reward is uncertain and unknowable at best.

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PostSubject: Re: Pope 'distorting condom science'   Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:41 am

InfamousI wrote:

Only, that kind of logic makes no sense whatsoever. If there is truly a just and all-loving God who created the universe, what reason is there to believe that He cares more about what you believe than how you live your life? I personally cannot believe that there is one true faith that people absolutely must ascribe to in order to be accepted by God.

Neither do I. That's what I'm saying.
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